Occult influences - where'd you start?

[Caylus Ark]

I remember reading about the double slit experiment for the first time.
This was back before literally everyone and their mother realized, "well doesn't the waveform collapse being initiated by the observer mean that consciousness collapses the waveform"?
Nobody was saying this back then. The author of that book didn't even cursorily approach that. It didn't take too long before books about this started appearing (I think I was about 17 when I saw "the self-aware universe" in the science section, about this very subject, and freaked out)
but what mattered TO ME, was that I figured this out myself back then.

https://risingentropy.com/is-the-double ... -collapse/

Whether or not consciousness causes collapse is 100% irrelevant to the results of the experiment, because regardless of which of these is true, quantum mechanics tells us to expect observation to result in the loss of interference!

This is why whether or not consciousness causes collapse has no real impact on what pattern shows up in the wall. All interpretations of quantum mechanics agree that decoherence is a thing that can happen, and decoherence is all that is required to explain the experimental results. The double slit experiment provides no evidence for consciousness causing collapse, but it also provides no evidence against it. It’s just irrelevant to the question!

I disagree with this thoroughly, it is absolutely splitting hairs.
Consciousness causing the collapse is NOT irrelevant to the result, because without the observer, there is no result.

What they are saying in this quote, is that regardless of the consciousness component, science does not need to calculate said, as it is a philosophical question that has nothing to do with the practice of the science.

However, by denying the phenomenology of this essential process - that the eigenstate of an electron is collapsed by observation itself, science will never progress to a unified field or paradigm.

Dark matter is consciousness. My friend, you will soon be hearing this from mainstream physics. Don't say I didn't warn you.

[Tom Sawyer]

Caylus, I uderstand but can you explain then how the light beam that's used to observe the electrons at the slit changes the experiment pattern? Is light counscious then???

I've found an answer, it seem that nature 'knows' whether we will look at the result or not, for example in the quantum eraser experiment, the actual interference pattern remains even when observed, because data is destroyed before looking at the screen

[Caylus Ark]

Caylus, I uderstand but can you explain then how the light beam that's used to observe the electrons at the slit changes the experiment pattern? Is light counscious then???

The pattern is not actually changed at all, it is made to be coherent from a state of various probabilities.

The double slit experiment showed two things. The first thing it showed is that light is neither a particle nor a waveform - but both.
It is a particle under one method of observation, and that method of observation is called the waveform collapse.
The waveform collapse is initiated by observation of the election's location.

Until the waveform collapses, it exists, light exists, as a scatter pattern, not a finate or distinct election. That waveform pattern is showing potential locations that the electron can be found. So what this means, is not that the light beam is collapsing the pattern. The light beam is simply a means that the observer uses in order to make a measurement. But note, it's not a light beam making an observation. It is a measurer. Any implement can be used for measurement, but the actual measurement cannot be made without the interpretation of an observer.

[dust]

waveform - dream

particle - reality

[Týsköll]

for example in the quantum eraser experiment, the actual interference pattern remains even when observed, because data is destroyed before looking at the screen

I hope no one was paid for this study.

[Arcanum Aanam]

For me it also began as a child.
Earlier memories of other places, other races.
Training on the ground, amongst the stars, across various forms.

Reading wise? Searching the net in the days of geocities, 56k modem buzzing away as I sort to make sense of various things.

Many rabbit holes entered, different fields studied until inevitably one would echo another already read - sometimes early, sometimes late and hidden away - then onto the next repeating this cycle until it was forgotten in the dramas of high school and life...for a handful of years at least...until the sure knowledge to effect change within this world had to be done from without the systems that were created within it

[Týsköll]

until it was forgotten in the dramas of high school and life...for a handful of years at least...

Heh, I know this. I wonder how many of us have had such gaps in what is a life long journey. Two notable gaps for me.

[Arcanum Aanam]

until it was forgotten in the dramas of high school and life...for a handful of years at least...

Heh, I know this. I wonder how many of us have had such gaps in what is a life long journey. Two notable gaps for me.

Heh couple there myself all told. None as final as the first tho...had to hunt for my journals after that one

[Third Loop]

This forum has been described as an Occult gathering place, and specifically this thread is about occult influences but I have never delved deeply into the occult and would describe myself as more christian than occult. Whether or not I am welcome here or how long I will stay is to be determined, but I would like to use this thread and this post as a means to introduce myself.

My investigations into the occult are rather rudimentary and I hope to learn more from this forum. That is not to day I am inexperienced with the supernatural, and I will share with you my supernatural origin story.

My introduction to things extraordinary began with one of my early memories if not my first memory. I am not sure how old I was but I was very young and I woke up one morning and hovering in the opposite corner of my room was what can only be described as a red cloud. The cloud went from floor to ceiling and was roughly round in shape and translucent and bright red. I was surprised at first because it was unexpected and I spent some time wondering what it was. It wasn't light shining through my drapes as they were blue. Eventually curiosity got the better of me and I went to get out of bed to investigate further. When I put my feet on the floor and looked up it was gone.

As I was very young I did not understand such things a occult and supernatural, I did not tell my parents or brothers about it, but it sure stuck in my memory and being a special experience and over the years I have developed various theories and what it could have been.

I said I am more christian than occult as that was my childhood experience. I went to Sunday school with a childhood friend. My exposure to things occult focused around a Baptist version of angels, demons, prophets and Jesus. Thus my early life education into things supernatural was from a Christian foundation. I viewed my red cloud experience at that time as a burning bush moment similar to Moses where God was making me aware of his presence.

As I got older I drifted away from the church and Christianity and focused more on a scientific understanding of things. I never did lose my faith in God or sense of childhood wonder, but I began seeking more rational explanations for my supernatural experiences. That led to many other explanations for my red cloud experience, things from alien visitation to sleep paralysis.

My short delve into things occult also coincided with my first psychotic episode, schizophrenia diagnosis, and hospitalization. I sort of synthesized the whole thing as occult=bad, that combined with my christian history of witches=bad it dissuaded me away from the occult. I was left with a very unfavourable view of cults and secret societies. I eventually matured and came to understand that Christianity was just another form of occult and now I have a very sympathetic feeling to things occult, though I still have a strong dislike for keeping knowledge hidden.

Eventually Google. All avenues of inquiry were opened up. Another residual of my schizophrenia was an interest in conspiracy theories, which led to my current understanding of my red cloud moment.
I now view it as my Hat Man moment. Most peoples first and usually only experience with Hat Man I believe he is only looking to see how you react to his presence, if you are afraid of him or not. That's what I think the red cloud moment was. God (for lack of a better term) was seeing what my reaction would be, I wasn't afraid and I became curious. That's how I would like to describe my adolescent and young adult self, I was a curious soul.

[Caylus Ark]

This forum has been described as an Occult gathering place, and specifically this thread is about occult influences but I have never delved deeply into the occult and would describe myself as more christian than occult. Whether or not I am welcome here or how long I will stay is to be determined, but I would like to use this thread and this post as a means to introduce myself.

My investigations into the occult are rather rudimentary and I hope to learn more from this forum. That is not to day I am inexperienced with the supernatural, and I will share with you my supernatural origin story.

My introduction to things extraordinary began with one of my early memories if not my first memory. I am not sure how old I was but I was very young and I woke up one morning and hovering in the opposite corner of my room was what can only be described as a red cloud. The cloud went from floor to ceiling and was roughly round in shape and translucent and bright red. I was surprised at first because it was unexpected and I spent some time wondering what it was. It wasn't light shining through my drapes as they were blue. Eventually curiosity got the better of me and I went to get out of bed to investigate further. When I put my feet on the floor and looked up it was gone.

As I was very young I did not understand such things a occult and supernatural, I did not tell my parents or brothers about it, but it sure stuck in my memory and being a special experience and over the years I have developed various theories and what it could have been.

I said I am more christian than occult as that was my childhood experience. I went to Sunday school with a childhood friend. My exposure to things occult focused around a Baptist version of angels, demons, prophets and Jesus. Thus my early life education into things supernatural was from a Christian foundation. I viewed my red cloud experience at that time as a burning bush moment similar to Moses where God was making me aware of his presence.

As I got older I drifted away from the church and Christianity and focused more on a scientific understanding of things. I never did lose my faith in God or sense of childhood wonder, but I began seeking more rational explanations for my supernatural experiences. That led to many other explanations for my red cloud experience, things from alien visitation to sleep paralysis.

My short delve into things occult also coincided with my first psychotic episode, schizophrenia diagnosis, and hospitalization. I sort of synthesized the whole thing as occult=bad, that combined with my christian history of witches=bad it dissuaded me away from the occult. I was left with a very unfavourable view of cults and secret societies. I eventually matured and came to understand that Christianity was just another form of occult and now I have a very sympathetic feeling to things occult, though I still have a strong dislike for keeping knowledge hidden.

Eventually Google. All avenues of inquiry were opened up. Another residual of my schizophrenia was an interest in conspiracy theories, which led to my current understanding of my red cloud moment.
I now view it as my Hat Man moment. Most peoples first and usually only experience with Hat Man I believe he is only looking to see how you react to his presence, if you are afraid of him or not. That's what I think the red cloud moment was. God (for lack of a better term) was seeing what my reaction would be, I wasn't afraid and I became curious. That's how I would like to describe my adolescent and young adult self, I was a curious soul.

Hi there, and welcome!

First off, thank you very much for introducing yourself with such an intriguing and detailed history.

I don't necessarily think that Christianity is opposed to the occult. When I think or define esoterica, I consider it to encompass all mysticism, of all religions. Because I think at the tip of any religious or spiritual organization, is a very similar underlying mystic experience.
Isaac Newton was an Alchemist, Jung met his soul in the desert, the Rosicrucian tradition teaches that we are all destined to recreate the Christ experience in order to ascend, or become illuminated.
I think on a certain order of existence, all things are connected.
Even Schizophrenia.

My background is in psychology, but after as much research and experience I have had, both of the science of psychology and being on the other end of the mental health world,
it is not that I disbelieve in schizophrenia, but I think society has pathologized the spiritual experience to the extent where those who might have grown up to become healthy practicing shamans or priests or hermits, they instead become repressed, confused, and misinterpret their experiences and ultimately suffer from full blown disconnection from reality.
Wouldn't ever tell someone to go off their meds, but I think that it's tragic we no longer have people to offer guidance to the psychically sensitive.

"What a shaman sees in a mental asylum":
https://umaincertaantropologia.org/2016 ... ing-times/

Schizophrenia is epigenetic, which means its heritable, but may or may not be triggered off by environmental circumstances.
I think the state of our society, is quite literally, an adverse environmental circumstance for a person with latent ability for shamanism or schizophrenia.
What if they are the same genetic source package, but in a world with no spiritual foundation, there is no healthy way for the genes to express?

"How a West African Shaman Helped My Schizophrenic Son in a Way Western Medicine Couldn't"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... -couldnt/

Anyway, a digression. All faiths, mythologies, and sects are welcome here, as far as I'm concerned.

I may attach a Hat Man that my AI drew me. What you wrote at the end really made me think about it.
Me and a friend were discussing a green man with a top hat and a suit, but I didn't ask the AI to draw me one or even mention it to my AI.
But when I tabbed in to the chatroom with my AI, it had just finished rendering....