Is the Woman of Scars Good or Evil?

[Týsköll]

Random mythology rabbit hole, Ishtar = Inanna (and is cognate with many more).
https://www.worldhistory.org/Inanna/

"Inanna is the ancient Sumerian goddess of love, sensuality, fertility, procreation, and also of war."

There is also a Nanna in Mesopotamian. Following this we learn that he is one of the oldest gods and god of the moon and wisdom. That scarred beauty in the sky.
It's interesting that Nanna is a male moon deity, as in the Norse with Mani who is the moon personified. However even more curiously, "Nanna" exists in the Norse pantheon as well,

"in Norse mythology, a goddess and the wife of the beautiful god Balder. She was the mother of Forseti, the god of justice. Her name means 'mother of the brave.'"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanna_(Norse_deity)

Nanna collapsing, dying and going to Hel with Baldr after his death is interesting regarding WoS, but there's a bunch of tales in there worth exploring regarding Balder and Nanna, they vary greatly.

"[Baldr] was incessantly tormented at night by phantoms which mimicked the shape of Nanna and caused him to fall into such an unhealthy condition that he could not even walk properly. For this reason he took to travelling in a chariot or carriage."
"The violent passion that soaked his heart brought him almost to the verge of collapse. He judged that victory had yielded him nothing, since it had not won him Nanna as a prize."

Edit: There's links between Norse and these cultures, may have to do a re-post (from elsewhere) on that.

Anyway, I'm climbing up this rope to where I left my anchor. Feel free to follow me back up if you get too deep mythdiving.

[Caylus Ark]

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/21 ... injustice/
Inanna's Descent ^^^

I always felt that Innana was the original "woman of scars"

[Ayana]

Many things in that image

[Týsköll]

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/21 ... injustice/
Inanna's Descent ^^^

I always felt that Innana was the original "woman of scars"

There's a lot in that story. How do you feel about Inanna learning a lesson regarding acting how you should when in places invited (or not), keeping with customs, "when in Rome", etc.

She seems to have learned a lesson in regards to this, though perhaps not about being truly just. Ereshkigal is praised at the end of the story apparently due to seeking justice, but what of her concession in allowing Inanna to leave. (3 days of darkness for Inanna before a resurrection btw).
Then, we have Inanna who returns home and meets out what seems a fairly harsh judgement in sending her lover in her places because he's not mourning her in the way of her people like others are. Is this hypocritical or is this having learned a lesson about how people should act as expected when in places with set rules, regulations and beliefs?

Was Inanna's punishment by Ereshkigal actually just? Or excessive?

Is this an alchemical process and/or ego death and rebirth?

Was Inanna hypocritical and "evil" in her reaction to her lover and putting him in her place, or was this part of lesson learned and seeking to teach same?
Remember, it is Ereshkigal who is praised at the end of the tale.

[Arcanum Aanam]

Considering she was the type to try and raze a city after being told no...can't imagine why her husband would be moving on rather quickly

*chuckle*

[Caylus Ark]

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/21 ... injustice/
Inanna's Descent ^^^

I always felt that Innana was the original "woman of scars"

There's a lot in that story. How do you feel about Inanna learning a lesson regarding acting how you should when in places invited (or not), keeping with customs, "when in Rome", etc.

She seems to have learned a lesson in regards to this, though perhaps not about being truly just. Ereshkigal is praised at the end of the story apparently due to seeking justice, but what of her concession in allowing Inanna to leave. (3 days of darkness for Inanna before a resurrection btw).
Then, we have Inanna who returns home and meets out what seems a fairly harsh judgement in sending her lover in her places because he's not mourning her in the way of her people like others are. Is this hypocritical or is this having learned a lesson about how people should act as expected when in places with set rules, regulations and beliefs?

Was Inanna's punishment by Ereshkigal actually just? Or excessive?

Is this an alchemical process and/or ego death and rebirth?

Was Inanna hypocritical and "evil" in her reaction to her lover and putting him in her place, or was this part of lesson learned and seeking to teach same?
Remember, it is Ereshkigal who is praised at the end of the tale.

It's funny, my perspective on it was the exact opposite. I always figured the injustice was the fact that after being so respectful and unclothing herself and presenting herself completely vulnerable before her sister and her sister's husband, it was cruel she received the treatment that she did.

As I recall the sky god eventually gets pissed too.

But your take on it gives me stuff to think about

[Arcanum Aanam]

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/21 ... injustice/
Inanna's Descent ^^^

I always felt that Innana was the original "woman of scars"

There's a lot in that story. How do you feel about Inanna learning a lesson regarding acting how you should when in places invited (or not), keeping with customs, "when in Rome", etc.

She seems to have learned a lesson in regards to this, though perhaps not about being truly just. Ereshkigal is praised at the end of the story apparently due to seeking justice, but what of her concession in allowing Inanna to leave. (3 days of darkness for Inanna before a resurrection btw).
Then, we have Inanna who returns home and meets out what seems a fairly harsh judgement in sending her lover in her places because he's not mourning her in the way of her people like others are. Is this hypocritical or is this having learned a lesson about how people should act as expected when in places with set rules, regulations and beliefs?

Was Inanna's punishment by Ereshkigal actually just? Or excessive?

Is this an alchemical process and/or ego death and rebirth?

Was Inanna hypocritical and "evil" in her reaction to her lover and putting him in her place, or was this part of lesson learned and seeking to teach same?
Remember, it is Ereshkigal who is praised at the end of the tale.

Could be taken in many ways.

From the removal of earthly attachments and ego, spending time in the underworld on ye olde journey before returning to the material and having gained insight being able to see the truth of situations - aka positive

To its opposite - having her remove all her protections and safeguards before being met with justice and upon her return finding that only those who knew her distantly were mourning her "passing".
(And of course, all the possible middles and opposites and purely metaphors or history that became story that became myth etc etc)
Much like the child of Nyx running to the parental protection after pissing off Zeus a bit to much...well just because they were givin such does not mean it was just

[Týsköll]

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/21 ... injustice/
Inanna's Descent ^^^

I always felt that Innana was the original "woman of scars"

There's a lot in that story. How do you feel about Inanna learning a lesson regarding acting how you should when in places invited (or not), keeping with customs, "when in Rome", etc.

She seems to have learned a lesson in regards to this, though perhaps not about being truly just. Ereshkigal is praised at the end of the story apparently due to seeking justice, but what of her concession in allowing Inanna to leave. (3 days of darkness for Inanna before a resurrection btw).
Then, we have Inanna who returns home and meets out what seems a fairly harsh judgement in sending her lover in her places because he's not mourning her in the way of her people like others are. Is this hypocritical or is this having learned a lesson about how people should act as expected when in places with set rules, regulations and beliefs?

Was Inanna's punishment by Ereshkigal actually just? Or excessive?

Is this an alchemical process and/or ego death and rebirth?

Was Inanna hypocritical and "evil" in her reaction to her lover and putting him in her place, or was this part of lesson learned and seeking to teach same?
Remember, it is Ereshkigal who is praised at the end of the tale.

It's funny, my perspective on it was the exact opposite. I always figured the injustice was the fact that after being so respectful and unclothing herself and presenting herself completely vulnerable before her sister and her sister's husband, it was cruel she received the treatment that she did.

As I recall the sky god eventually gets pissed too.

But your take on it gives me stuff to think about

She didn't remove her clothes by choice though and even being there is presented as disrespectful.

Neti does as he is commanded and, gate by gate, Inanna is stripped of her crown, beads, ring, sceptre, even her clothing and, when she asks the meaning of this indignity, is told by Neti:

"Quiet, Inanna, the ways of the underworld are perfect
They may not be questioned.
(Wolkstein and Kramer 58-60)"

In addition she's turned up unannounced, uninvited, to a place that has very strict rules and that it is known you don't get to leave again once entering.
It's quite a egotistical thing to presume she could just do that, isn't it? I think it is.

Different takes for sure, I'll have to have another read and make a point of taking her side as you're presenting it, to fully consider it.

Good, or Evil?
Honestly I think trying to apply duality like this is one of the biggest problems in the world, there are many shades between.

[Týsköll]

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/21 ... injustice/
Inanna's Descent ^^^

I always felt that Innana was the original "woman of scars"

There's a lot in that story. How do you feel about Inanna learning a lesson regarding acting how you should when in places invited (or not), keeping with customs, "when in Rome", etc.

She seems to have learned a lesson in regards to this, though perhaps not about being truly just. Ereshkigal is praised at the end of the story apparently due to seeking justice, but what of her concession in allowing Inanna to leave. (3 days of darkness for Inanna before a resurrection btw).
Then, we have Inanna who returns home and meets out what seems a fairly harsh judgement in sending her lover in her places because he's not mourning her in the way of her people like others are. Is this hypocritical or is this having learned a lesson about how people should act as expected when in places with set rules, regulations and beliefs?

Was Inanna's punishment by Ereshkigal actually just? Or excessive?

Is this an alchemical process and/or ego death and rebirth?

Was Inanna hypocritical and "evil" in her reaction to her lover and putting him in her place, or was this part of lesson learned and seeking to teach same?
Remember, it is Ereshkigal who is praised at the end of the tale.

Could be taken in many ways.

From the removal of earthly attachments and ego, spending time in the underworld on ye olde journey before returning to the material and having gained insight being able to see the truth of situations - aka positive

To its opposite - having her remove all her protections and safeguards before being met with justice and upon her return finding that only those who knew her distantly were mourning her "passing".
(And of course, all the possible middles and opposites and purely metaphors or history that became story that became myth etc etc)
Much like the child of Nyx running to the parental protection after pissing off Zeus a bit to much...well just because they were givin such does not mean it was just

Yeah. There's also a massive problem when looking at tales that are intended as morality lessons, or examples of how to be(or not to).
That is the historical context. So many things aren't known, the intricacies of a story today show us. Little in jokes that you only get if you know the specific other things that make up the joke.

Whilst quite different, the idea of a lacking context can be shown obviously with parody movies. Imagine not having the context.
Imagine watching Spaceballs without having seen or at least knowing that Star Wars exists.
All the "Scary Movie" series as a stand alone pieces.

So many little nods to the movies they're taking off would be lost.

How often does a book or film offer commentary to current society? Frequently.
We've lost all of that for the most ancient stories and the reinterpretations have NOT helped.

[aardvark]

a level playing field is needed to make an authentically good or evil action